Question to June re: Your Love Sickness

Talk about Juné Manga titles.

Question to June re: Your Love Sickness

Postby sun22 » Tue Sep 14, 2010 6:04 pm

I'm sorry to bring up this issue yet again, but a series of most recent very / fairly explicit June releases - Maiden Rose, Tyrant, Finder 1 - that were kept completely uncensored by June's editors (thank you!) - convinced me June has a new policy on these issues. But I just got another recent release, "Your Love Sickness" (a great manga I very much adore and recommend) - and it's censored. It seems like your policy depends on how popular a book is (??) and the less known titles are still being censored. Or has "Your Love Sickness" been scheduled to be released much earlier [than Finder or Maiden Rose], and hence, such different approach towards what's allowed? It'd help to know that for sure, as again, I bought "Your Love Sickness" for a full price to support DMP - directly from Akadot (instead of buying it much cheaper elsewhere). I guess now I may have to revert back to a more cautious buying from you directly, in particular for not-so-famous yaoi manga, as it still can be censored...

P.S. This is a question to June directly. I'd appreciate others NOT discussing on this board and giving their opinions on what they think on this issue. Please start separate threads for that. We all can speculate, and let's not make this issue more heated than it needs to be, that's not my intention. I just want information - assuming June is comfortable providing it, and has time to do so (And I can understand if they are not / do not.)
sun22
 
Posts: 323
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:12 pm

Re: Question to June re: Your Love Sickness

Postby mo2468 » Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:03 pm

DMP is almost certainly not going to answer this query. In fact, they have never answered any such line of questions in the entire history of this forum. They've mostly ignored them (they shut down the VF discussion only saying "don't judge the book until it is out" and nothing more). You can't expect them to now step back and defend themselves against assumptions that were made without any previous assurances from them.

Also, while I will omit my personal opinion, as per your request, about the topic of censorship and their decisions to do or not to do it on different titles, this is a "discussion" forum. It is for "discussion." It is not the "ask questions to the captive audience of DMP" forum. If you wish to ask a question and get a direct response from the company and no one else, you should write an e-mail or PM. Public posts on a public forum are public, where people are allowed to voice their opinions on issues brought to attention. If you don't want issues to get discussed publicly on a public forum you shouldn't post them on a public forum in the first place.

In addition, you seem to care a great deal about spending your money only on uncensored works. In the future you might want to purchase them only after finding out for sure that they are uncensored. This delays purchasing time, but it will avoid disappointment.
mo2468
 
Posts: 219
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:45 pm

Re: Question to June re: Your Love Sickness

Postby sun22 » Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:55 pm

mo2468 wrote:In the future you might want to purchase them only after finding out for sure that they are uncensored. This delays purchasing time, but it will avoid disappointment.


I've learned about the fact of censorship for most of the June's censored books only years after they were published. At that point, a good chunk of them are out of print, both in the US and occasionally in Japan as well. If I - and all those who wish avoid spending more money on censored books than they're worth to us - would WAIT till somebody kindly tells us - June will only lose more customers, as it seems to be long or even a fairly infinite wait for many less-popular June yaoi mangas. Finding out if the manga is censored or not requires 1) somebody buys both June and Japanese edition for the less popular book I'm interested in buying (and I'm interested in pretty much all June titles), 2) then compares and tells everyone somewhere on public forum, 3) and I somehow miraculously find that Internet entry on the web in time to buy the book while it's still around. This may and often does take years.

Your suggestion seems to intend to drive business away from June, as such wait would only prevent some customers from buying, for long or infinite periods of time (i.e., until they find out whether a book censored or not - if ever). While I - by asking questions and trying to understand - still struggle to be a loyal DMP/June customer and keep on buying from them / supporting them directly. Inconsistent (and unexplained) censorship polices are surely confusing and may drive some customers away. I hope and have all intentions NOT to be among those lost customers, as I like many of DMP's/June's books and policies.

Also, I'm not "expecting DMP to defend themselves" etc. I'm asking a question about a June title, and as you might have noticed, this forum is also full of questions, from DMP customers to DMP. Some of them DMP answer, some of them they do not. I'd leave that to DMP to decide, it's their forum.
sun22
 
Posts: 323
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:12 pm

Re: Question to June re: Your Love Sickness

Postby Senyoru-Chan » Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:56 am

I think they HAVE explained why they censor some titles. The popular ones doesn't need to be censored becuase people already know about them and plan on buying them. The less known are censored so they can more easily get into stores and just not the internet. Some stores don't wanna order the too kinky ones and this way they will get noticed and bought. Sales are important.

I know it sucks but is makes sense, sort of. There could be a huge difference between a 18+ book and another 18+ book. Some manga-ka don't even draw very realistic "gadgets" anyway. So in this case you'll probably don't get annoyed. However if you knew the manga-ka usually makes it very realistic you will get annoyed and angry. To tell the truth, I never even read some of the originals of June's titles. So I might have lived without knowing if they were censored or not. I didn't even know they did censor some titles until this year. See? I fail. Now when I know I try to look around and ask others what they know about to book, before I but it. Except if the title is too awesome not to buy anyway. But if I'm unsure I'll most definitely look up the original myslef and enjoy whatever they took out or not.
User avatar
Senyoru-Chan
 
Posts: 347
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:28 am
Location: Sweden

Re: Question to June re: Your Love Sickness

Postby sun22 » Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:45 am

Senyoru-Chan wrote: The popular ones doesn't need to be censored becuase people already know about them and plan on buying them. The less known are censored so they can more easily get into stores and just not the internet. Some stores don't wanna order the too kinky ones and this way they will get noticed and bought. Sales are important.


I thought about this issue some more and I think that this may be also because most popular mangakas - for instance those who already got to most European markets and/or have a good chance to get there - wouldn't agree to their works being altered by June so easily. All the uncensored June works we see may be just a result of the manga-ka saying "No". June rep did mention they discuss censorship decisions with the authors. So, my rule of thumb became: if the author is not super popular, the book is likely to be censored by June. Though I mentioned this many times, I am not sure why June wants to keep quiet regarding what they censor. If they think they will sell less if they tell, I am not sure that is the case. For one, I buy less and more reluctantly (at discounted prices and not from Akadot) from June as long as there is any chance of the book being censored. And with most of their publications, the chance is pretty high.


if I'm unsure I'll most definitely look up the original myslef and enjoy whatever they took out or not.


that's assuming the book is still in-print in Japan by the time you find out it was censored by June. It happened to me a number of times when I had to pay quite some money to get the book censored by June, as by the time I found out, which was years after June's publication, it was already out of print in Japan.
sun22
 
Posts: 323
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:12 pm

Re: Question to June re: Your Love Sickness

Postby Senyoru-Chan » Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:45 pm

Yeah I don't like it either, when they don't wanna tell us what's really going on. But I think if they do say it's censored the sales may drop too much.

When it comes to out of print in Japan there's almost always other ways to get it, though it may be harder if you're not actually IN Japan...If you were you could most likely find most stuff for a buck each. ( Yeah I've been there lotsa times so... xD ) Not much to do if you're not as I said...you may not wanna order through the internet...with the shipping and stuff... :/
User avatar
Senyoru-Chan
 
Posts: 347
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:28 am
Location: Sweden

Re: Question to June re: Your Love Sickness

Postby lore » Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:13 pm

Senyoru-Chan wrote:Yeah I don't like it either, when they don't wanna tell us what's really going on. But I think if they do say it's censored the sales may drop too much.


Yes, the bottom line on June not advertising that some books are censored is that people won't understand why or how the books are censored (very little these days, just shafts and fluids, usually), or check between the different books to see if some aren't censored. Reputation means a lot in marketing and sales. If June started admitting in the books that the content was censored, that's all people would talk about. "Oh, you don't want that, it's censored." People will assume they're missing story, not just parts of a few images.

"Censorship" and "Censored" are polarizing words. Printing up all the books with censorship details could depress sales too much.

Also, if June printed that some books were censored, they might have to counter by printing that some books are uncensored. I would think they'd have to put "uncensored" on Viewfinder, for example. Pasting "uncensored" on books just makes the entire process seem...dirty? Porny? And all BL publishers in the US are trying to avoid being tarred and feathered as porn vendors - there wouldn't be as many sales if girls and women had to ask for the books from behind a counter.

Anyway, June gives us this forum to talk about censorship specifics in titles. As long as you can say you laid eyes on original material, you can make a censorship report on the censorship thread. I won't say it's ideal - a book might sell out before a reliable censorship report can be made. But I think if you wrote the DMP mods or contacted Akadot and asked directly if a book has been censored, you would probably get a straight answer.

So, all that said, I don't think DMP is ever going to be printing censorship reports in the books themselves because of sales issues. And that's really for the best if we want to continue receiving any English translations, censored or not. The BL market has shrunk down to two main publishers and a few even smaller presses. We don't have much choice left other than to not purchase books at all.

love, lore
User avatar
lore
 
Posts: 297
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:12 pm

Re: Question to June re: Your Love Sickness

Postby sun22 » Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:24 pm

lore wrote:People will assume they're missing story, not just parts of a few images.


To claim something like that, you need to own the manga both from June and in the original. I doubt you own the originals for this particular book or the other censored new release, Cafe Latte Rhapsody (?). I do, and I can say that in both cases, the censorship changed the meaning, as it's absolutely unclear that oral sex occurred between the protagonists in June / censored editions. This is particularly the case with Cafe Latte Rhapsody, where the censorship changed the whole tone of the book (June even released it under 16+ rating, which, as we both know, is typically reserved for very timid yaoi titles in case of June). You'd never guess from the June's edition that such intimacy occurred between two main characters, I certainly couldn't.

lore wrote: Pasting "uncensored" on books just makes the entire process seem...dirty? Porny? And all BL publishers in the US are trying to avoid being tarred and feathered as porn vendors - there wouldn't be as many sales if girls and women had to ask for the books from behind a counter.


How about using such words as "unedited", "unaltered" or "artwork - just like in the original", or just simply "original artwork" for the uncensored manga, and publish censored books with NO such labels? The word "censored" or "uncensored" can be easily avoided.

lore wrote: But I think if you wrote the DMP mods or contacted Akadot and asked directly if a book has been censored, you would probably get a straight answer.


I really doubt this is the case, i.e., I really doubt I'd get a straight answer ("yes, it's censored", or "it's uncensored") if I email / PM them. But I will try it next time.

So, all that said, I don't think DMP is ever going to be printing censorship reports in the books themselves because of sales issues. And that's really for the best if we want to continue receiving any English translations, censored or not. The BL market has shrunk down to two main publishers and a few even smaller presses. We don't have much choice left other than to not purchase books at all.


Are you trying to claim that those publishers who went out of business did it just because they published uncensored books? And June is around because they censor (and keep quiet about it)? That's how your statement reads to me. We all know this is not the case.

Yes, the bottom line on June not advertising that some books are censored is that people won't understand why or how the books are censored (very little these days, just shafts and fluids, usually)


What is else there to censor in yaoi manga but "shafts and fluids"? Faces? Or legs and arms? Of course, censorship of explicit yaoi scenes by definition involves removing "shafts". It is not "very little" to many buyers. If I were interested in manga without "shafts", I'd be buying non-yaoi or shounen-ai titles. Moreover, publishing hardcore uncensored yaoi (Finder, Maiden Rose) under the same imprint as censored and "shaft"-less titles can be very confusing and misleading to a buyer. I'd prefer to deal with two separate imprints, and adjust my expectations (and make purchasing decisions) accordingly.
sun22
 
Posts: 323
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:12 pm

Re: Question to June re: Your Love Sickness

Postby azureus » Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:11 am

Aww, this title was censored? I haven't got my copy yet :|
Just came across your topic today - hope you don't mind me adding my comment, since it doesn't look like you'll be getting a reply from DMP staff.
I guess, for me who won't be buying the Japanese originals, the issue of June censoring some titles is a little frustrating - but if I want this manga, it won't stop me buying it. I'm a captive buyer, since I have no other options...

If you don't mind modding your books a little,
One option if you have access to the original, is to trace in the missing bits either direct on the page, or on transparent tracing paper and overlay the censored page ;)
I do direct-on-the-page sometimes on Tokyopop books to translate SFX.
Only books I will definitely keep for ever, of course... tricky to on-sell modded books :P
azureus
 
Posts: 68
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:21 pm

Re: Question to June re: Your Love Sickness

Postby Senyoru-Chan » Fri Oct 22, 2010 5:24 am

Gotta agree with you there. If I wanted non sexual books I'd buy 13+ titles only or "all ages". Seems like the US has many different opinions about "porn" and i's like some people are ashamed of it. Or actually have you ever thought about this, most 16+ yaoi titles aren't much worst than shojo 13+ tiles. Isn't it funny? Let's not make this into a different debate I just wanted to point out a interesting fact while we were on it. To me yaoi isn't always porn, it does have plenty of plot unless were talking about doujinshi. Fan made manga. Which is usually just a bunch of smut with characters from a comic were such things would normally not happen. Anyway...it would have been better if hey didn't have to cut parts out then again a least you can get the book in your language. I don't agree with illegal downloading of manga even though it happens that I do it myself sometimes. ( I've pretty much stopped now though after libre's massive letters to scanlators ) But if I do and like it I'll usually buy he Japanese original or wait til it comes out in English. I never download already licensed books though, that's really bad! I know this doesn't help everyone, but personally I'm glad I can read he book at all. I do of course hate the censorship though. And I have to admit knowing it's censored makes me wanna but it it less. Then again I think it's plenty if you get the original instead, the manga-ka gets back what she deserves. June doesn't unfortunately win on that though. I'll makes sure to buy plenty of other book from them instead. I plan on buying at least 4 more book from hem this year. Not sure if I'll try some of their old books. Maybe.
User avatar
Senyoru-Chan
 
Posts: 347
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:28 am
Location: Sweden


Return to Juné Titles

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests