Dealing with scanlations of your titles

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Re: Dealing with scanlations of your titles

Postby Scryren » Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:50 pm

That's not even close to what I said, and neither is what you claimed I said in your previous post. Please stop putting words in my mouth.

This is the exact reply I send you:
The very email in the beginning of this conversation is the aggressiveness I am describing. It is completely unnecessary to accuse any scanlation group of a business's shortcomings while informing them of a license and you have done so in detail twice now.

With regards for Takaga being licensed months ago, the informality of how DMG announces their licenses is the exact reason groups continue to work on DMG projects. The twitter post you mention is from August 2011, seven months ago, and is not a licensing announcement but a response to the question of whether or not DMG is "planning on releasing" two different titles. The twitter post does not state that DMG has acquired the licensing rights to either of these, only that DMG is in the process of acquiring the rights.

Working to acquire the rights is not a finalized deal and DMG, or any other publisher, cannot expect scanlators to drop every project that a publisher is looking into. Not only do most publishers keep that information internal, but the NA publisher might not necessarily get the license.

With regards to giving us time to remove licenses as a courtesy to comply with NA laws, you are forgetting that the very nature of scanlations is illegal. If complying with IP laws was on our list of prioritires we wouldn't be scanlating. I'm assuming you are one of the DMG members that hasn't worked in a scanlation group before you joined DMG or you would know that there is no reason to contact the major groups about removing licensed files because it is part of all major group's policies to remove licensed projects and we feel very strongly about that. Once a manga is licensed, our job is done--the scanlation is no longer needed.

However, I am not the internet police; it is not my responsibility to enforce a publisher's intellectual property rights, nor do I have the legal rights to. If DMG chooses to license a title that has been completely scanlated for over 500 days, and wants to spend their resources combing through every LJ, forum and blog that doesn't adhere to removing licensed projects, that is DMG's choice. DMG will not get sympathy from me over low sales because they are choosing to do digital releases of manga that have been scanlated for years, and I know others feel the same way.

To reiterate, do not accuse us of your company's shortcomings. Not only is it unprofessional, but is unnecessary for your reason of contacting us. You are writing us to let us know about a licensing announcement that we missed, please keep it to that.

[End of email]

I can't believe I have to come into DMP's official forums to defend myself against one of their employees.
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Re: Dealing with scanlations of your titles

Postby Shroud » Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:02 pm

My first post quotes your entire email. if anyone wants tos ee it, I'll be happy to fwd the entire thing. As for the second post I made...You state that the opening of my email is the very aggressiveness you are complaining of that you get from DMGers as a whole, which was a telling you who I was, asking you to stop distribution as it's now under production, etc. You also state DMG's lack of formal announcements is why you feel you can scanlate titles as you believe they might only be under negotiations and not firm, despite informal tweets and the like that they are.You also state that contacting you ourselves will be only taken as a citation, and not fact, as DMP have not made formal announcements. You also state that once a title is licensed and released, your job is done, and you stop sharing, yet...YOU DID NOT for Aiso tsukashi, which you do not dispute. I hope you can see why folks take a personal issue , as those two things contradict each other. You previously stated one action, then did another, yet still claim to stick to the 1st. You also do not dispute that what you are doing is completely illegal.

I do thank you for being willing to share your email to me to provide clarification to everyone, as I'm sure it helped clear up your group's stance. I was loathe to do so as past the part where you have a message that pertains to actions of DMGers as a group, I did not feel comfortable sharing a personal communication without permission. If I have misunderstood anything, I do apologize.
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Re: Dealing with scanlations of your titles

Postby Scryren » Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:24 pm

You keep leaving out the part where you accused us of directly causing Aiso's sales to drop and the emotional distress it personally caused you and your paycheck, both which had no purpose in a C&D notice no matter how informal it is.

When you send out C&D's on behalf of a company, you are representing them and your behavior in both the emails to my group and the posts in this thread reflects horribly on DMG's reputation.

It's come to my attention through the feedback we have received on our site that this is how you treat everyone you C&D and furthers my belief that I made the right choice in choosing to no longer announce DMG's licenses on our site.

Your infatuation with the time it took us to learn about Aiso's license has completely blinded you from how we've handled licenses in the previous six years and how we handled Yume's licensing just this last week.

You also seem to have a problem with groups checking our facts before we react to licensing news. I believe doing our homework is fully justified. As an example, Anime News Network is a very reputable source but they reported the wrong manga because they got their information from a con blogger who posted the wrong cover image. To this day AarinFantasy still list Zenbu Ore no Mono as licensed by Kitty Media. Zenbu Ore no Mono doesn't even translate to I Want to Be Naughty.

This is why it is extremely valuable to us and other scanlation groups that publisher put out a press release for the licenses they've acquired--there is nothing more solidifing than seeing the cover and the title on the NA publisher's news page.

Despite what you may think Shroud, we take licenses very seriously. Do not mistake our unwillingness to drop a title without a press release as malice, especially when this very forum announced Kimi de Oboreta Ato before it was finalized, and in the end, DMP never got the license.
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Re: Dealing with scanlations of your titles

Postby Scryren » Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:00 pm

Very cute, Shroud. You do know that pretending to be the copyright owner of every single one of our releases hosted on Mediafire is purgery right?
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Re: Dealing with scanlations of your titles

Postby Russesa » Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:18 pm

...I see this thread has both served its purpose and failed at it, as this was the kind of animosity I was hoping to learn how to avoid. I ask that the two of you settle your specific complaints elsewhere, if the discussion must be continued at all. I expect any further conversation in this thread to be civil, leading in the direction of a compromise. Directed barbs and jabs are not welcome.

I think we can all agree that treating one another with respect and dignity should be the standard.
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Re: Dealing with scanlations of your titles

Postby Shroud » Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:29 pm

I never pretended that. The key legal statement is " that the complaining party is authorized to act on behalf of the owner of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed. " DMP gave us the right to request the take downs.

As for how long it took you to learn of the license..that does not alter the fact that you still relased it knowingly AFTER license and release. As for referencing the fact it affects sales and sales provide the livlihood of those in the publishing business, it does have relevance. This fact has been repeated again and again and again in articles to do with scanlations of licensed titles ad nauseum. It's not just MY paycheck..it's EVERYONE's, incl. the mangaka. The one whose work is being promoted. Asking someone to respect that is not unprofessional...it is fairly standard. Look at the front of nearly EVERY ebook produced by many small press these days, and you'll see the same plea "Please don't share..this is the livelihood of...". As for how I treat people, I have been polite. People with fingers caught in metaphorical cookie jars may not always like it when they get caught, or find their files are gone, but then, as you point out...the content is illegal and they do not work for, with, or represent the copyright owners in anyway.

And yes, Russea is right. The animosity is palpable. Checking my email, I kina see why she is so angry. I complained to MF about DMG stuff. mediafire however has seemingly looked at the DP acct and suspended the entire thing for illegal content that had nothing to do with my takedown request. That issue is between DP and Mediafire. I'm talking about it.
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Re: Dealing with scanlations of your titles

Postby Shroud » Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:31 pm

hate not being able to edit posts. last sentence should read "I'm DONE talking about it."
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Re: Dealing with scanlations of your titles

Postby Scryren » Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:46 pm

Takaga was was removed from our Mediafire account almost ten hours ago. What exactly did you file a DMCA notice on? DMP does not have the legal authority over any of the 170 series in our Mediafire account and therefore cannot give you permission to file a DMCA on their behalf. Just because you work for one publishing company does not give you carte blanche to represent all of them.

As you were the one who filed the DMCA notice, I suggest you do the right thing and take responsibilty for your actions.
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Re: Dealing with scanlations of your titles

Postby Shroud » Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:07 am

I filed for Takaga...not just the file I'd listed that had been in your acct, but files of it uploaded by others. I have NO idea why they they lumped your other removals with my request, but as they did, I am enquiring with them about it. if they did so after seeing the other copyrighted material present in your folder, they need to give the proper reason and not attach it to my complaint.
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Re: Dealing with scanlations of your titles

Postby Shroud » Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:22 am

Actaually, since MF emailed me about each title as if they were part of my complaint, I have sent them an email enquiring why the titles were added to my complaint as they were not listed in my takedown request. I have asked them to contact you to explain why they did so, as looking at my complaint will clearly show those were NOT in it. I also asked that they correct their files as to why they removed them, as I was NOT the complainant.
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