Ayano Yamane's Finder series - under which imprint?

[kinziechan]

801 is owned by DMP

[machigai]

well, I'm actually optimistic but let me just say this to any DMP officials reading- I will not buy these books if the artwork is altered in any way. It's as simple as that.

I also think DMP must provide a straight answer to our concerns. If I write to a company asking if a certain feature is included in their product I expect a simple, honest answer. That is how any respectable company operates and I can't believe this is even up for debate! However, it's possible not all decisions were made for this title so I will wait a little longer.

[fairygirl]

To answer the following questions:

[from sun22]: "Fairygirl - what's your point, exactly? That DMP was right to license Finder under June because of X reasons, all discussed many times here already? DMP already DID that." Yup, you got it. And, to reiterate, I find it troubling that people with little (or no) knowledge of the publishing industry make assumptions as to why June was chosen over 801, or (even worse) assume that shrink-wrapping a title and labeling it 18+ make all content accepted in other countries acceptable in the US.

[from sun22]: "If you trust DMP with every single decision they make, and fine with "justified censorship" or whatever you call it, good for you, I guess my life would be much easier if I could trust everyone (and be as "easy-going") that easily." Yes, perhaps your life might be easier -- that's not for me to say. My point was that for me personally, this (i.e. some alterations to the title) is not the end of the world.

[from sun22]: "So, just wait patiently as we all do here (patience is a virtue ), buy your book and be kind enough to let us (those who are "petty" enough to care about such "non-consequential" things) know if you think the title is censored or not." Your use of quotes here to me suggests a snarky tone that I do not appreciate; however, I will give you the benefit of the doubt because tones are very hard to interpret over the internet. And yes, I will by the book and, if it is of any help, will be happy to answer questions about it when I do.

Perhaps "lore" was right to say:

[from lore]: "At this point, I'm going to ask for a freeze on this thread, if that's possible (I wouldn't want to see it deleted). I think there's been some posts on both sides of the debate that have been calm and reasoned, but there have been other posts that seem to be verging into the personal. I fear we're only going to go downhill from here."

Now that I've been able to answer comments directed specifically at me, I have to wholeheartedly agree with lore.

[mo2468]

@mo: If you're willing to buy ANYTHING blackboxed, theres something wrong.

Nothing purchased is ever "completely" black boxed, unless you're walking down the street and someone offers to sell you the contents of a mysterious box for $X without telling you what was inside, and who would actually do that? That's not what we're talking about. When you go into a store and you want a television, you ask "What size is the screen? How much resolution does it have? How much does it cost?" There is a certain amount of information you're probably going to require knowing before you make your purchase, and then there is a certain amount of information that you aren't going to care about. This amount of information is going to vary by person, and I never once claimed that my standards were anyone else's standards. Some people require to know if a manga is censored before agreeing to buy it, and that is their right. I even offered to buy the book and let everyone who requires this information if it is censored so they don't have to waste their money if it is.

I personally care to know what the general plot of the title is and what kind of art style it uses. I already know both of these things about VF. I don't care whether VF is going to be censored a little, and it will probably only be a "little" given DMP's history ("little" as defined by my own standards, which I admit may be subjective), if it is censored at all. Their past "censored" titles, many of which from mangaka I love a lot more than Yamane Ayano, didn't bother me all that much (especially, as now with VF, I also owned the Japanese tankoban for those books), so in that respect, I don't particularly feel that I will be buying these books "blind." I know what I can expect if it is censored. I also know what I may be surprised to see not censored, and that prospect encourages me. I don't particularly like censorship, I don't know anyone that really does, but I know what I am "okay" with, and DMP's level of censorship in the past is "okay" with me.

[sun22]

At this point, I'm going to ask for a freeze on this thread, if that's possible (I wouldn't want to see it deleted). I think there's been some posts on both sides of the debate that have been calm and reasoned, but there have been other posts that seem to be verging into the personal. I fear we're only going to go downhill from here. I'm sure the censorship debate can and will continue in other threads, but I think we need to make a fresh start of it.

Amazing, are you suggesting to censor DMP fans (not just their books too)? Rest assured, people will open a new thread to discuss it. If DMP wants to ban our accounts, fine, this will be discussed elsewhere, and they will lose fans plus even smaller number of people will be on their own forum. Maybe, they will have to pay money for the market research then, as getting a one-sided opinion and working off that will surely impact their sales. IMHO.

I think everyone is behaving pretty reasonably on this thread.

[sun22]

[from lore]: "At this point, I'm going to ask for a freeze on this thread, if that's possible (I wouldn't want to see it deleted). I think there's been some posts on both sides of the debate that have been calm and reasoned, but there have been other posts that seem to be verging into the personal. I fear we're only going to go downhill from here."

Now that I've been able to answer comments directed specifically at me, I have to wholeheartedly agree with lore.

Amazing, not only you guys are in a better position than the rest of us (i.e., you support DMP in any decision they're about to make with VF, so you'll be happy anyway), but you're also trying to shut up anyone who disagrees. Why to wonder - people who are OK with censorship will certainly try to censor as well. Using Fairygirl's often-used wording, this is very "troubling" indeed.

Oh, and by the way, thank you very much, Fairygirl, for taking your time to reply to me, and giving me "benefit of doubt". I also appreciate you coming back after you read the VF 1 and letting us know what's edited vs what's not. Having such loyal fans like you, no wonder DMP is probably not in as much of financial trouble as most other US BL publishers out there (well, they were the ones who acquired VF, after all...). I'm learning from you now in how those publishers I like should be defended and supported,

[Hiyoshimaru]

I'm not trying to inflame anyone about anything, just posting my opinion. I found out this was going to be rereleased through the YA comm and while I am excited, I am not at the same time. I've been buying from June for years so I can see how much the quality has fallen. I dont want to see this with Viewfinder, as I own all 5 Japanese copies and love it. I was actually expecting Kitty to get the license as they have Crimson Spell and are doing a FANTASTIC job with it.

Anyway, I dont really see how you can censor VF without censoring the entire first chapter. It is very explicit. The entire series is. And while censorship appeals to a younger audience, I dont buy for that. I buy because Yaoi is a form of porn I can get without feeling like a complete pervert. Stories another thing entirely.
Errrr I ramble, sorry, but the point is, if June can assure the public that the quality will go back to what it was and the book will remain in its original format with nothing missing and nothing added (dialogue) then I think we can all be happy.

If you're going to bring up the whole "yaoi is porn" thing again like mo did, I'm gonna cry.

[mo2468]

If you're going to bring up the whole "yaoi is porn" thing again like mo did, I'm gonna cry.

Please don't misrepresent my words. I went on at length to clarify my position about what I constitute as "porn" in BL. It is unfair to take someone's (in your case kinziechan's, and in Sun22's case mine) off-hand comments and twist them around, changing for no discernable reason the intended point of the original argument. And that's all I am going to say about "yaoi as pornography" in this thread, so don't worry.

[Hiyoshimaru]

Okay. I'm sorry.

[sun22]

My comments/quotes are twisted all the time, by a variety of people, Mo, and in the more recent cases, the moderator of this forum herself. I came to accept it as a part of Internet discussions, but it's also one of the reasons I left some of these discussions. Maybe, we should just close / "freeze" all threads here and elsewhere, as a few of you suggested, as it always gets "too personal" for someone's taste