Ayano Yamane's Finder series - under which imprint?

Talk about Ayano Yamane's Finder Series!

Re: Ayano Yamane's Finder series - under which imprint?

Postby mo2468 » Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:42 pm

I admit that people have the right to be concerned, but I think ChibiKami was hinting that those who're concerned will be pleasantly surprised at the result, and that it isn't fair to judge the book until it is out. While people should be allowed to express their concerns openly, I don't see how DMP owes them an answer to the question of whether it is censored or not (especially since it is very likely in production right now and all decisions on it have not been made). There are those of us (myself included) that will buy the books regardless of censorship, and have already agreed (me, again) to report back with details of any censorship upon release, so anyone who doesn't want to buy it if it is censored won't waste their money. And it's not like they're being expected to wait a year to find out, either. The first volume is shipping by the summer, right? That's only a few months away at this point. Patience is, indeed, a virtue and all that.
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Re: Ayano Yamane's Finder series - under which imprint?

Postby sunflower33 » Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:55 pm

mo2468, would you accept that for any other product? Buying something in a black box, not knowing if it's got all the features you wanted? Most people wouldn't, and with good reason. DMP doesn't have to answer anything of course. In the meantime, the first thing out of people's mouths is, "June? They censor stuff. Crap." They're just hurting themselves during a time when the buzz should be more positive.

Also, the fact that decisions might not be made yet is precisely why many of these people are speaking up now. They want June to know that if that's even being considered, and who knows but seeing their past work it might be, that most disapprove of it and that it would affect sales. So isn't it better to say something now? To me, I think it's best to get it all out in the open.

And too, there's the fact that they're concerned about the books going out of print quickly, which has also happened with titles lately, so they want to be able to know if they should preorder as early as they can. So waiting for someone to get it and report back isn't going to help with that decision, even though I'm going to order it as early as possible from Akadot and review it. Seriously, what's the difference between a reader saying if it's censored, or a DMP employee? None.

So it's not a question of patience, but one out of concern that they might not be able to buy the story they all love. Yamane fans adore Viewfinder, and they're speaking up because of that.
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Re: Ayano Yamane's Finder series - under which imprint?

Postby sun22 » Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:12 pm

mo2468 wrote:I don't see how DMP owes them an answer to the question of whether it is censored or not (especially since it is very likely in production right now and all decisions on it have not been made).


I'm not interested in any prolonged discussions on this topic, as enough was said, but wouldn't any reasonable company do all the due diligence and at least read the book, and decide on major implementation (i.e., major censorship issues) when undertaking such a major (and probably costly) project as Finder Series? I certainly hope and pretty sure DMP did all that. The right time to voice any concerns we may have about any details of how Finder is going to be produced is now, before the actual production phase. After that, it will too late anyway. Whether DMP will listen or not, that's a separate story, but at least I know I told them my perspective on things.

Re: whether DMP "owes" us any reply: I don't think they do. In fact, they could have done three things: 1) do / tell their fans nothing, 2) tell in a clear / straightforward manner they are going to censor or not, or 3) give a fairly vague answer that can be interpreted multiple ways, depending on a fan's mentality / opinions etc. They obviously chose the latter, which in all fairness beats choice #1 (something a number of other US BL publishers would do).

Yet, I cannot withstand a temptation of not mentioning yet again that DMP rep chose to criticize / ostracize me for providing them an honest, non-offensive opinion (and opening this thread) - just because my opinion happened to be in some contradiction (?) with what DMP thinks. I think June/DMP should appreciate varied opinions their fans have, as it's free market research for them, right there. As a general rule, a company should know what their consumers/buyers (a variety of them) think, that's one of the major rules of business. (And what does that "warning" ChibiKami just gave me mean? "Banning" my account for criticizing them for going with June, not 801-Media, and thinking they will probably end up censoring the book because of that / all the circumstances? I'm eager to find out, really... )
Last edited by sun22 on Sat Mar 13, 2010 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ayano Yamane's Finder series - under which imprint?

Postby mo2468 » Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:41 pm

sunflower33 wrote:mo2468, would you accept that for any other product? Buying something in a black box, not knowing if it's got all the features you wanted? Most people wouldn't, and with good reason. DMP doesn't have to answer anything of course. In the meantime, the first thing out of people's mouths is, "June? They censor stuff. Crap." They're just hurting themselves during a time when the buzz should be more positive.


I understand people's concerns, I really do, but personally, I don't care if it is censored. I will buy it anyway, so yes, I buy "black box" manga all the time. I don't expect other people to do that. It's what I do myself. I don't do it for other types of things, like electronics, etc. because that is a completely different concept all together. Books are literature, which is art. It's not the same as buying a laptop because you specifically want a certain amount of RAM or something. Not to me, anyway. I make a clear division between censorship imposed by the government (bad) and censorship imposed by the "free market" (not so great, but better than not getting stuff at all). Others are free to disagree there is any difference, of course, but this is the side of the issue I am on.

And, again, I think people voicing their concerns is totally in their right. Please do. DMP will get the message, they are very attentive to these forums. But there is a difference between voicing a concern and implying a title is already ruined before the first volume has even been released and warning people not to buy it before knowing anything about it (not about you).

Also, I seriously doubt this title is going to go out of print so quickly. None of DMP's titles go out of print in a couple months. If they sell all their print run in a couple months of this title, they will most definitely print more. It's going to be a huge cash-cow for DMP as long as they don't muck up the adaptation. =)
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Re: Ayano Yamane's Finder series - under which imprint?

Postby fairygirl » Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:58 pm

I have been following this thread (and the others on this forum dealing with issues of censorship) with great interest. Obviously, the ideal situation for any English-language edition of a manga title is to leave all artwork exactly as is, provide a smooth and accurate translation, and a high-quality printing.

However, there seem to be a lot of assumptions going around about the whole publishing process and the potential legalities that may be involved. I have never worked in publishing, nor do I have legal expertise. If any of you do, please feel free to enlighten us about the issues. The most blatant assumption I've seen in the "censorship" threads on this forum is that if a publisher shrink-wraps a title and labels it 18+ then any content is acceptable and legal. However, as much freedom as there is in the US, the laws there are not exactly the same as those in Japan. Anyone who has followed the legal proceedings against Chris Handley should know that he was charged (and is facing jail time) for possessing Japanese manga and doujinshi whose possession is tolerated in that country but not in the US. I'm not saying that the Finder Series contains material that would be illegal in the US, but you can't just assume that a "mature" rating and some shrink-wrap make the contents irrelevant.

A second thing I find troubling are assumptions being made in the "801 vs June" imprint debate. True, 801 Media does seem to have been designed to handle the more risque titles while June is more mainstream, so I can understand why many people were wondering why June was chosen over 801. However, does any of us really have any idea what goes into licensing a title in the publishing world? How do we know that the license negotiations didn't require DMP to assure the Japanese publisher that they'd be reaching a market of a certain (large) size by choosing DMP, thus requiring DMP to go with June over 801? I believe the mods have already explained several times in other threads how they have access to large retailers (e.g. Borders, Barnes and Noble) with June that cannot be reached with 801, but that putting titles into such stores makes it necessary to take into consideration certain content that those large retailers may object to.

What I'm saying is this: I imagine we all wish we could have the books exactly like the originals but with English text, right? But business (and life for that matter) is about compromise. I hope that any changes that have to be made to this series (of which I've grown very fond) are minor and sympathetically done. I, for one, will trust the staff at DMP/June to bring us the best English version they can, given the constraints within which they must work (constraints that I, not being in the publishing business myself, do not wish to make assumptions about).

Thank you to the staff at DMP/June for all the hard work you no doubt have put, and will put, into this series.
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Re: Ayano Yamane's Finder series - under which imprint?

Postby sun22 » Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:19 pm

Fairygirl - what's your point, exactly? That DMP was right to license Finder under June because of X reasons, all discussed many times here already? DMP already DID that. If you trust DMP with every single decision they make, and fine with "justified censorship" or whatever you call it, good for you, I guess my life would be much easier if I could trust everyone (and be as "easy-going") that easily. Honestly, you really have a winning hand here. DMP will do exactly as you "wish" them to do, trust me :) So, just wait patiently as we all do here (patience is a virtue :)), buy your book and be kind enough to let us (those who are "petty" enough to care about such "non-consequential" things) know if you think the title is censored or not.
I highly suspect the title will be censored, partially because of X factors you mentioned, and I don't even care by how much they censor it. IMO: Defected good is a defected good, regardless of X "factors" you just mentioned. Of course, whenever DMP tells us all Finder won't be censored, I will humbly take everything back and apologize to DMP for doubting their good intentions. Hey, in that case I will even buy 10 Finder volume 1 books, as I promised ! :D
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Re: Ayano Yamane's Finder series - under which imprint?

Postby shouichie » Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:19 pm

Please someone tell me about the size. I don't understand about b6 size or whatever. but I have BB version. is it will be like that size?
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Re: Ayano Yamane's Finder series - under which imprint?

Postby kinziechan » Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:47 pm

I know I have already stated a rambling opinion but I do feel the need to express myself when I am more awake and coherent. Also to cover the other opinions that have been stated.

I for one will not wait to get the book, I will purchase it but please be assured if it is censored I will leave neccisary feedback. I do not purchase a BJD without sufficient information about the doll and company first and I do not purchase a censored book. EVER. What I have of Junes that is censored I have given as gifts to others who like that sort of thing. Censorship is not widely supported among the yaoi community.

@Sunflower: I agree with you wholeheartedly.

@mo: If you're willing to buy ANYTHING blackboxed, theres something wrong.

@Shou: This will be virtually the same size as the original Japanese version.

I feel foolish for getting so worked up about this, but when I get home from working full time and going to University full time, I want something to help me relax, and reading is something that helps with that. Whats going to get me to buy your books to read during this time? What can you offer to those who have an interest but arent sure?
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Re: Ayano Yamane's Finder series - under which imprint?

Postby lore » Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:08 am

At this point, I'm going to ask for a freeze on this thread, if that's possible (I wouldn't want to see it deleted). I think there's been some posts on both sides of the debate that have been calm and reasoned, but there have been other posts that seem to be verging into the personal. I fear we're only going to go downhill from here. I'm sure the censorship debate can and will continue in other threads, but I think we need to make a fresh start of it.
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Re: Ayano Yamane's Finder series - under which imprint?

Postby nycmango » Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:02 am

WHY! WHY! WHY! Why th heck would you give this title to June!!! We all know June censors even the work by famous mangaka Makoto Tateno and to make matters worse, on a scale of 1-10 of explicit content by Makoto Tateno versus yamane it's like 1 for Makoto Tateno and 10++++ for Yamane!

Yamane's work is 100times more explict then Tateno, so you go figure .. if they censor content that isn't as explict to begin with then what the heck do you think the publication of viewfinder will look like.

Yea it's true getting it in English is better than nothing but WTF you ain't the only publisher out there! I would be glad if it were 801 media or Kitty media that got the license since their reputation on censorship is none!

Just knowing June does in fact censor is a turn off. This news doesnt make me happy at all!

And yes although it will be in English but why bother when it's not the original! It's like buying a bootleg of a brand name! It might look the same but in reality it's not the original art of the artist when you start to censor because the company is greedy and wants to sell more books! FYI people buy all their books online now so your sales will be fine so please just don't censor!!!!!!
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