801 Media forums are 18+ only? Why Now!?

[kinziechan]

It was held in Arizona. It was Crimson Spell that they asked me to buy. When i asked how old they were they wouldnt tell me so I said no and walked off.

[sun22]

It was held in Arizona. It was Crimson Spell that they asked me to buy. When i asked how old they were they wouldnt tell me so I said no and walked off.

Thanks! Good choice! But what happened is quite appalling, honestly....

I also wonder if this undercover operation was even entirely legal: e.g., there are a lot of undercover anti-prostitution cases, and from what I hear an undercover has to be clearly offering her "services for pay" for the man to be caught on "soliciting a prostitute" charges. The fact that the undercover girl was concealing she's underage makes me wonder about the whole legality of their undercover operation. Unless, of course, she was clearly looking underage, or that particular law just says "it doesn't matter"....

And shockingly, Arizona police knows about yaoi, and Crimson Spell in particular! Who told them? Probably some mom of an underage who got a hold on clearly 18+ material. So, yes, the introduction of the locked 18+ forum for mature titles discussions was long overdue.

[Hiyoshimaru]

Did I mention you can also buy graphic yaoi manga at Target.com?

[kinziechan]

Doesnt mean you should. Alot of my early teens could have been avoided had I not brought home FAKE. I think the thing here is just to stay away from mature titles until you are in fact of age to buy/read them.

[Hiyoshimaru]

I buy what I feel like, yaoi is not like a porno that you can only get through special means + an I.D.

I feel most yaoi really shouldn't be treated as "pornography"...

[kinziechan]

Actually, book stores are required by law to ID for any 18+ or Parental Advisory labeled manga OR comic. Most book stores also carry pornography.

[sun22]

Actually, book stores are required by law to ID for any 18+ or Parental Advisory labeled manga OR comic. Most book stores also carry pornography.

Just curious, where are these stores / what kind of porn are they caring? Seriously, all regular bookstores I visited (Eastern Coast) have no pornography, and they surely do not check IDs, whether there's a law or not. It could be state-specific. Only some very shady establishments or newspaper stands in my area sell Playboy and the like. Re: checking IDs - I specifically asked one person who worked as store clerk in the main chain store which was selling BLU manga, and she told me she was never required by her manager to check any IDs. Obviously, they do not care to check IDs, and they did not consider 18+ BLU manga "porn".

P.S. Personally, I think they should check IDs, even for 18+ manga. But I doubt there's any such federal law (or at least enforced law), as they obviously do not check IDs everywhere.

[kinziechan]

Actually, book stores are required by law to ID for any 18+ or Parental Advisory labeled manga OR comic. Most book stores also carry pornography.

Just curious, where are these stores / what kind of porn are they caring? Seriously, all regular bookstores I visited (Eastern Coast) have no pornography, and they surely do not check IDs, whether there's a law or not. It could be state-specific. Only some very shady establishments or newspaper stands in my area sell Playboy and the like. Re: checking IDs - I specifically asked one person who worked as store clerk in the main chain store which was selling BLU manga, and she told me she was never required by her manager to check any IDs. Obviously, they do not care to check IDs, and they did not consider 18+ BLU manga "porn".

P.S. Personally, I think they should check IDs, even for 18+ manga. But I doubt there's any such federal law (or at least enforced law), as they obviously do not check IDs everywhere.

The Borders around here have a section that carries pornographic magazines and movies. Theres an employee whose job it is to simply patrol that area. I have a few friends at various stores around the Valley who tell me stories about the kids they have to keep out.
And maybe it is just local law that makes it a requirement but I was under the impression it was federal law that you must be over the age of 18 to read or look at pornographic material.

[sun22]

And maybe it is just local law that makes it a requirement but I was under the impression it was federal law that you must be over the age of 18 to read or look at pornographic material.

That may be true, but it depends how one defines "porn", right? In my area, all yaoi manga they sell in stores (I've seen only BLU manga, some 18+ rated) is sold without shrink-wraps (as some customers obviously peeled it off), and nobody is asking for IDs. IDs is asked only in adult sections of small DVD stores, where they sell or rent seriously adult / porn-by-any-definition movies. My impression is that the age rating that manga publishers put on their books is self-rating only, and meant for parental guidance only / not the same purpose as mandatory rating / disclosure (X or whatever they call it now) adult film-makers put on their movies. As much as some people believe explicit yaoi is "porn", it doesn't seem to have such an "official" status yet, at least not the yaoi manga I've seen being sold in regular bookstores.

[lore]

The "you" in this post is the general "you". I'm saying this to be clear for the readers who don't speak English.

It would be good to remember that just because a vendor doesn't ask to see ID before selling rated material to someone, it doesn't mean that vendor won't be held accountable if an officer witnesses the vendor selling material to someone of an inappropriate age.

One of the best examples of this practice is when Excise police officers run crack-downs on local alcohol vendors, most especially in college towns on the weekends. They go into a store and if they see a sales clerk selling alcohol without checking IDs, the clerk and/or the store receive a fine or other censure, up to and including prosecution and jail time.

If a knowledgeable police officer witnessed a youthful-looking person purchasing a BL book rated OT (older teen), +16 or +18 without the salesperson checking the purchaser's ID, that officer could step in and either impose whatever penalties are at the officer's disposal, or the officer could issue a ticket with a court date for the case to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

All of this is subject to federal, state and local statutes, and local law enforcement can choose to police or ignore vendors that deal with age restrictions at its whim. But all it takes is one upset mother complaining that her child was sold BL "porn" to get the police inside a local Borders, or at the ticket counter of the movie theater, or outside a liquor store. The localities of all 50 states have standards by which they choose or not choose to handle age-rated or age-restricted material.

Ratings on most media and entertainment are seen as guidelines for parents and other purchasers to follow. But ignoring those guidelines can open up vendors to lawsuits, boycotts, and prosecution, depending not only on local morality, but on local laws that might take the ratings on media and entertainment more literally.

Bottom Line: What I'm saying is that this isn't necessarily a debate on whether BL is considered porn or not. The fact is, there's ratings on all BL books, and if stores don't choose to enforce the ratings on their purchasers, the stores have potential consequences to face, from mere customer outrage all the way to prosecution.

This is the reality of selling BL books, whether or not you consider them porn. This is also why it's not a good idea for people who are under the age ratings to flaunt their previous purchasing successes in a public forum. One upset mother raising a stink is all it takes these days to set in motion something like, for example, Target.com pulling all BL or even all manga from its site.

Businesses will always cover their own butts unless it involves enough consumers to make fighting for something worth it to their bottom lines. If you want to continue to have many channels from which to buy rated material, you can either play "the game" quietly, refuse to play the game by making no more purchases of rated material, or you can fight the system from the ground-up. I'm not advocating one or the other, but those are the only choices I can imagine.

Like it or not, this butt-covering is most likely why DMP chose to make the 801 Media forum closed to those under 18. The books are all rated 18+, so there's no reason to allow anyone younger into the area. Right now, I think it's pretty good of DMP not to have restricted ages on their other forums. June books range from 16+ to 18+ (are there any 13+ June books? Don't answer that here, heh, rhetorical question). DMP would be well within its rights to restrict access to the June forums to 16+ or even 18+, but I suspect that, 1. DMP would like the forums to be welcoming to as many of its fans as possible, both young and old, and, 2. DMP staffers don't quite know how to add another level age-restriction to its forums (*ducks rotten tomatoes from the mods* ). Yet? We shall see!